Flashscore: After such a successful season for Barça, is there a Flick method or a Tous method?
Tous: "There is a Barcelona method, you could say a Barça method as well, which I think should be talked about because Barcelona is a city that has traditionally been characterised by innovation.
"So, obviously, the spearhead, let's say, is Barça as an exemplary professional club, almost unique in the world, with the number of sports sections it has.
"There are two intersecting paths, what already existed in Barcelona and a coaching staff led by Flick, who comes with some ideas, obviously, from Germany, which creates a fantastic synergy.
"So, for me, that would be the most remarkable thing this season. In other words, suddenly when we start talking to Flick from the working group, we understand each other immediately, and he says: 'Go ahead, whatever you need, no problem'.
"But, let's say, of those of us who train the players, this is probably one of the causes that has had the greatest impact, isn't it? That synergy between a, let's say, German culture with the culture of the Barcelona school or the Barça school."
In Paco Seirul-lo's book on Barça DNA, he says of you that 'the pupil has surpassed the master'. Did that phrase surprise you, or how did you take it?
"The truth is that I didn't sleep that night. It caused me tremendous pressure and what they call impostor syndrome. I've had a relationship with Paco for 30 years. It will be now that I know him, because I came here in 1995 and, and I think there is a mutual affection and probably, with that he wanted to say: 'Hey, I leave this legacy in good hands, it's not just me, but other colleagues who have developed, I understand, with very good results in other disciplines, in other clubs, in this same school in Barcelona that they said, no?'"
Maybe that's what the method consists of, isn't it? Perhaps adapting the physical aspect to Barcelona's traditional football.
"This methodology of Paco Seirul-lo is the initial spearhead; it is designed solely and exclusively for team sports.
"And football is probably where there is the greatest possibility of applying it. All this started in handball, with a Barça that was devastating, that won a number of brutal European Cups and then moved on to football.
"But in football, of course, there are more years, right? So, what happens? The big difference with respect to other methodologies that you can find worldwide, from very powerful schools, such as the German one, is that this was designed solely and exclusively for team sports. And the rest is an adaptation of individual sports.
"And, for me, that is the mistake. So, let's see, the mistake, and this must be pointed out, is that there is always going to be an accumulated bias due to the fact that you have taken something from the world of athletics or the world of swimming and adapted it to a world like football, which is absolute chaos.
"The most unpredictable thing there is football. So, these sports are cyclical and they are predictable and they are about performance and delivery. And football is a situational sport.
"It's complex in the sense that it's constantly evolving and, of course, it's not going to work. Maybe, with a high-performance athlete or a high-performance footballer, who is a genius, despite training him in a way that is not the most appropriate, he is still going to impose himself, and he will be able to give results, right?
"But, for me, the beauty of this method, which there is probably only one other similar method, but from a tactical point of view, which is Victor Frade's proposal for tactical periodisation, is that it is based on team sport. In other words, it is designed for that, not adapted.
"This change is very important because Paco made an effort, because he himself came from athletics. But he said: 'We have to reinvent the theory of training'.
"And there is a book coordinated by him prior to ADN Barça, which is the training of team sports, where all this is explained. It's about four or five years old and that's where all this proposal for structured, cognitive training is explained, applied to team sports, however you like, but good. In the end it is this proposal, the Barcelona school or Barça school."
There is another phrase of yours: 'It's not luck, it's science'...
"One of the first scientists in the world of football, Tom Riley, who was from Liverpool, we invited him here. I remember him saying: 'Football is not science, but science can help develop and improve football'.
"You have to point out, because science is based on something that is reproducible and someone in Argentina can take that same idea, take the same elements and reproduce it in Argentina, and you get the same thing.
"So, be careful, because in football that's not going to happen normally. So, what happens? Let's call it a discipline that can benefit from scientific knowledge.
"Because obviously the human being works in a way, there are things that are more variable, others that are totally objectifiable and all that can help.
"So, there is a lot of knowledge that has a scientific basis, that has been proven, that has been very useful for football, especially for injury prevention? Nowadays, the whole issue of big data, although people often go crazy with this data because they don't allow us to explain football either.
"And if not, I think bookmakers are the biggest example. The bookmakers, I don't know if you bothered to look at the beginning of the season, the odds were six-to-one against Barça. We should all have been betting.
"And in the end, Barça wins the league against all odds. So, the algorithm that the bookmakers used, which supposedly you would think, I'm not saying it's infallible, but it's very tight, failed at that point."
'The number of competitions in football is a real savagery'
You work a lot on strength to prevent injuries.
"Yes, yes, but also to increase performance. Of course I do. In today's football, the number of competitions that take place each year is a real savagery.
"This year, in addition, we have another one, which we do not compete in, fortunately, in the sense of protecting the health of the players.
"Everyone would like to win the Club World Cup, and of course, it would be ideal, but from the point of view of prevention, it is a problem. There is a FIFA report that I remember that gave the example of Lautaro (Martinez, who is now going to play in the Champions League final (editor's note: this interview was done before PSG vs Inter), with a number of matches a year with less than five days between them, which was totally unbearable. In other words, it was not sustainable over time.
"What has happened? There was no break on injuries and then the players also tended to lose performance or ability to perform on the pitch over the course of the season.
"It's logical to understand why, because they were overworked. What countermeasure can you do? Rotation.
"But of course, if you are in a team like Barça, you want to win. So rotation is limited because you want to play with the best players. If you had two squads, you could do it moderately and have some young players play in the cup or something like that. But this measure is complicated.
"So what other countermeasure can you do? Improve all the support at a conditional level, which is what is traditionally understood as physical preparation and support at a medical level, which are the ones that help you the most to endure this.
"And it is a dual function: to prevent, but also to maintain the performance that has been gained at the beginning of the season, especially in pre-season, and during the year, so that it does not fall into a tailspin. And what you do at the end of the year is micro-doses of work maintained throughout the year so that you don't lose what you gained at the beginning of the year in pre-season."
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You weren't part of the original Flick staff, you were already at the club, and then Flick comes in, right?
"Exactly. And Flick arrives, who in a way accepts this structure that Barca has created, both from a physical and physiotherapy point of view, with a good number of physiotherapists.
"All of them have mastered some very effective, very innovative techniques that Raúl Martínez has developed to allow the tissues to regenerate much better after an effort."
How do you see next season? Barcelona's two strongest rivals in La Liga are Real and Atletico Madrid. They are both playing in the Club World Cup. So, isn't Barcelona already at a big advantage in that respect?
"Yes, we can't deny that there has to be an influence because the number of matches accumulated this season for these two teams is going to be much higher.
"To that we have to add the games that the national team have. The two games they might have to play, at least. And it's going to be, I don't know whether to call it a drama, but it's going to be very complex to be able to regenerate all that accumulated competitive load in as little time as they have. Because LaLiga, if I'm not mistaken, starts in mid-August."
'Madrid and Atleti will have to work very hard in the weeks they have on holiday'
So, how much time do they have to make up for that?
"They will have to be very careful in the few weeks that they have of rest so that the player can reset mentally, but also regenerate on a physical level. And this is not easy, because of course, normally it is usually given, even if it is a week of saying: 'Look, forget about football, forget about training'.
"Enjoy with your family and after a week we'll start to move around a bit. But above all, I want you to forget about it mentally.
"Reset, and from then on, we'll start working. I would almost say that they won't be able to afford it, because now they will be caught by those who arrive at the end of the pre-season, when the pre-season is almost over.
"There is no material time. In other words, it's that really, and this is probably what the institutions have to consider what they want, because they are really pushing the machinery, from my point of view, a lot.
'With Ter Stegen, as usual, they have tried to force as much as possible'
Speaking of individual players, what do you think Marc-Andre ter Stegen's problem is? Because a long injury for a goalkeeper normally takes time. However, there seems to be little patience with this.
"Let's see, this is the same as always. When you have a first-choice player who has been out for so long, everyone wants him to come back soon, and most importantly, so does he.
"Of course, you try to force as much as you can. So, at that level, what I also understand has happened this year is that there was suddenly a goalkeeper who had consolidated his position, and then there was the first-choice player who wanted to come back.
"And of course, the timing was very tight. And in the end, the decision made by the coach, which is his decision, is taken, and all the staff behind him do what they have to do is to show the necessary data to support or not.
"This is a case, maybe a goalkeeper is not going to be changed, but with an outfield player it is more usual to say to the coach: 'I wouldn't put him in for more than 30 minutes or I would put him right at the end, that's where he can make the most difference, he is ready for that, but not for more time'.
"Or you start him and then change him in the second half. You give him those kinds of instructions and then the coach decides, obviously, because the ultimate decision is his. But with a goalkeeper, it's perhaps the most delicate thing.
"And of course, this year there was also the circumstance that Ter Stegen, when he came on as the starting goalkeeper, the team, as the coach said, hadn't lost. So there was no reason to change him.
"So, it was a very delicate decision, but also, if there is another first-choice goalkeeper who has to have the feeling of coming back, then in the end it happened, I think, what we have all seen, that it was quite logical."
'Lewandowski has an incredible work ethic'
Now I wanted to ask you about Robert Lewandowski, who has performed spectacularly this season. How much can a player who is also a goalscorer score 40 goals in a season at that age, at that level? What is the secret to this?
"Of course, it's always down to the player. And he is a player who has always taken great care of himself and who has an incredible work ethic and a predisposition to work that...
"Let's see, I'm not going to make comparisons here either, but of course, they are strikers of such calibre that perhaps the striker as a rule that everyone has known, is perhaps a person who is more of a maverick, who goes his own way, who doesn't value the culture of work so much.
"We always said, especially during my time in Italy of course, the defenders could be the physical trainers, because they have such a good training culture and such a predisposition that I could go and say: 'Guys, I don't know, Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli and so on, you run the session and I'm going for a coffee'.
"I mean, it's not normal for a striker, a goalscorer, to have that kind of discipline and character over the years, but Lewandowski at that level is an example.
"Then, if you ask me as a specialist in these matters, I would say that if there is a booster, a booster when you are relatively old for football, it is high-intensity neuromuscular work.
"Metabolic work has to be secondary in some way, everything that is long-duration work, etc.
"And what allows you to keep competing is the neuromuscular. That's your power, your start and so on. Then, of course, that is related and you can, in some way, take the neuromuscular towards the metabolic, towards being resistant over time, the resistance to power. But the basis is the neuromuscular.
"If you don't have those structures prepared to generate high power and then train them to maintain power, injuries, performance drops, performance swings, this is going to happen to you. So, he's been very disciplined, and the programme for someone like him helps him enormously.
'It amazes me how Lamine can be so mature and so stable at that age'
Now, I wanted to talk about Lamine Yamal. How do you work with a genius who is also in high-performance playing with seniors at the highest level?
"First of all, Lamine's quality, I think, is visible to any outside observer, but I have to admit that the first day I saw him, I had to rub my eyes.
"Because, all of a sudden, I saw a sort of, I don't know if I should call it something between a panther and a snake, moving at a very fast speed.
"And I said: 'I've seen what I've seen, if it's the first training session and he's already like that, and he's coming from doing nothing in theory, the quality this kid has is incredible'.
"So, first of all, what's inside this kid is clear that to do what we see on the pitch, he has to be 24 carats? No, 48. Because we already see the body he has. I mean, he's not fully developed yet, and of course, the power he's capable of putting on a ball or in acceleration, in stopping, is dazzling.
"This internal wiring, I can assure you, is of a very high level. So that makes everything easier, because you either have it or you don't. Just like the great sportspeople in history were outstanding at that level.
"What surprised me most about Lamine is how you can be so mature and somehow so stable in your behaviour at that age, because I certainly was not. I mean, I think that when we are that age, hormones kill us and you have days of ups and downs, fights with your mother, with your grandmother, with everyone, because you are an unstable teenager by definition.
"I think Barca and La Masia have done an incredible job in terms of education, because he is a polite, respectful boy, and you never see him in the dressing room doing anything out of place.
"Like all the boys at La Masia, he has a very nice sporting culture. So, from that point on, it's very easy for us, because if you already have that base, you have no problem doing what you have to do.
"You apply what you think he needs on an individual level and then make the progression to the tailor-made suit. Lamine makes it much easier for anyone who works with him."
'Fermin got injured because of that lack of rest'
With Fermin Lopez, you could say it's similar to Rodri; he played so many games last season, and that's why he had these injuries.
"Probably yes. What happens is that, also, Fermin got the injuries from the start because he hadn't really rested, and this was talked about because he played, if I remember correctly, in the Olympics and was in the European Championships that they (Spain) won.
"The accumulation was brutal, and when he came to realise it, we had already started the season.
"He was given two weeks, if I remember correctly, and due to that lack of rest, and we can relate it to what we talked about before, it is likely that he also had a very rare injury with practically no intensity, breaking the rectus femoris in both legs.
"Fortunately, it had no major consequences, and in his specific case, he was able to undergo surgery. And we've, let's say, put him in cruising speed.