Van der Vaart fires Real Madrid to top of the table

madrista mark said (talk about hypocrisy and double-talk):
"I could pull up other lists from various youth teams and Barcelona may have more players than Real, so I suppose its arbitrary to say one is better then the other based off just call ups... I do think that having players called up is an important barometer of a cantera’s quality"

Which one is it, mark? And which is the more *important* call-up? Again, I think most would agree that a cantera's strength is its ability to show the development of top-class footballers, which means the *ultimate* call-up to represent your nation/club on the *senior* squad [see my previous post (La Seleccion:: Barca: 8; RM: 2...; Club:: Barca: 14,7(starters);RM: 6,2(starters)]. That alone is the only way to demonstrate full progression into a top-class footballer!

If you disagree that a cantera's job is to produce footballers capable of playing on the highest level, than I would say that's the reason you are left bragging about one U18 squad out of the entire national system and only two RM cantera starters in your current squad.

Before you laugh at the Barca-Almeria *draw*, I would simply remind you: Alcorcon 4-0 Real Madrid (you brought it up, not me)

Oh, and madrista mark:

While you conveniently mentioned RM's recent sales, you misrepresented Barca's recent sales:
Ronaldiho (€27.7 to ACMil), Dos Santos (€5.2m), Caceres (€11m loan for year+€9m offer from Juv. to make perm.), Deco (€7m), Crosas (undisclosed, <€1.6m), Zambrotta (€9m)

That's €61.5m (w/out incld. Caceres's pending sale) to the €49.5 figure you quoted.... which means Barca had €139m net expenditures for the past two years.... the €32million difference between clubs represents 20% of RM's net expenditures... *again, Barca did this while earning 6 MORE trophies**

Well here is some more facts you goose:
Real Madrid’s cantera seems to be producing talent just as capable, if not more so than, then the highly esteemed Barcelona cantera, based on the recent call up sheet for the Spain u-18 squad competing in the Atlantic Cup (virtually the u-18 Euro Championship). No less than 6 Real Madrid youngsters (Daniel Carvajal Ramos, Alejandro Fernández Iglesias “Alex”, Pablo Sarabia García, Rubén Sobrino Pozuelo y Álvaro Morata Martín) were selected for the squad, with Barcelona only supplying 1 player (Sergi Gomez Sola). The list also includes well known promises such as Kevin (Real Zaragoza), Isco (Valencia) and Luis Alberto Romero (Sevilla) to name a few, with Espanyol providing three players and a whole host of teams providing a single player.

My question is whether or not national team call ups is an accurate measure of the health of a youth academy or not. I could pull up other lists from various youth teams and Barcelona may have more players than Real, so I suppose its arbitrary to say one is better then the other based off just call ups. But I do think that having players called up is an important barometer of a cantera’s quality, and as usual Real and Barcelona supply a good amount of players, although Espanyol always has a decent amount of players as well.

You cant just sit there and say that Real Madrid has no quality in its Youth program, thats hypocrisy at its finest which seems to be a Farca quality these days. You aslo cannot go back into the immediate history and throw 6 tropheys around, we only started spending this year and this year is not over. Farca has been the best club side in world football for 18 months, however, you dont have the history, culture or spending power to match Real in the long term and now its showing. We have played poorly all year and yet we are ahead of you with a better run home. Hypocrocy is clouding your judgement Farca Fool and you better lift your game if you are to keep capitalising on the mammoth amounts of money you have spent like we will. Almeria??? cmon

madrista mark, here are my facts. Where we differ is how these youth are employed on the top club/national level. Barca youth have been given the chance to play on their first-team squad and for La Selección. RM youth rarely get this sa,e opportunity.

Here is how Barca's La Masía stack up:
1. Cantera members of Spanish National Team: (Barca: Xavi, Puyol, Iniesta, Cesc, Pique, Busquets, Bojan, Reina, (Valdez should earn spot since he has the best statistics in La Liga and some of the best in Europe RM: Casillas, Raul(recently passed over repeatedly for international duty) Arbeloa)

2. Cantera members seeing first-team club action this season (*=regular starters): (Barca: Messi*, Xavi*, Puyol*, Iniesta*, Pique*, Busquets*, Bojan, Pedro*, Jeffren, Valdez*, Barta, Thiago, dos Santos, Gai Assulin (14total,7starters); RM: Casillas*, Adan, Arbeloa*, Granero, Guti, and Raul(7total,2starters))

3. Cantera members in top 5 Balon d'Or voting: (Barca: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, RM: none)

4. FIFA/FIFPro World XI: (Barca: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, RM: Casillas)

5. If you exclude Puyol and Busquets for joining Barca a little later in their childhood (both from local Catalan-city teams not from other canteras), then you must also exclude Raul (joined at 16 from shut-down Atletico cantera), Arbeloa (joined at 16 from Deportivo cantera); which means that you lose 2/3 of the RM Selección and half your RM starters! Cesc left Barca at 16, and has himself claimed to be a Barca product.

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To your financial comments:

I've never argued Barca hasn't splashed money to build around it's Cantera core, they have made some good acquisitions (and admittedly some busts). *However*, Barca is still operating more sustainably than RM:
1. Percent debt/value Barca 7% RM 23%
2. Last year's club value growth Barca 21% RM 5% (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/34/soccer-values-09_Soccer-Team-Valuati...)
4. **Thank you for figuring out in your previous post that Barca paid €20.8 million LESS than RM only to win 6 MORE trophies last year.** In additions, Ibra aside, most of Barca's recent acquisitions have been younger players.... why? For development as Laporta has stated

*Small difference in spending. Big difference in quality.*

I think the facts above prove that Barca has had more success with their La Masía and their spending. *If RM's cantera aim is to produce a lot of midtable players you've never heard of, then they have succeeded. If their aim is to produce top players worthy of their club/La Selección (like Barca has), they have failed.*

Always happy to provide more facts, feel free to post a response...

Couldnt help myself:

"We create players, not buy them, unlike Real Madrid." – Joan Laporta, Barcelona President.

Florentino Perez has come under heavy criticism for spending "ridiculous" amounts of money in this transfer window, their great Spanish rivals FC Barcelona have somewhat slipped under the radar.

Indeed, everyone seems to have forgotten and "forgiven" Barcelona for spending profusely on a certain striker who goes by the name of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

But the Director General of Real Madrid, Jorge Valdano, didn't:

"The church appears to be above religion. When they signed Ibrahimovic they didn't practice what they preached. It surprised me that they didn't apply the same rules as Cristiano Ronaldo to the Ibrahimovic transfer."—This is an excerpt from Jorge Valdano's interview which he gave to AS.

Just one day after Valdano's interview, the Catalan club purchased a 22-year-old defender—Dmytro Chyhrynskiy—from Shaktar Donetsk for €25 million, a significant sum for an established, world-class player, let alone a young, almost unheard of defender.

Had Real Madrid made the same signing, newspapers around the world would be condemning their transfer policies and Perez would no doubt come under scrutiny once again.

Barcelona, on the other hand, made the signing with no surrounding fanfare, and the move was barely reported in media outlets.

Fueled by the Chyhrynskiy transfer and Jorge Valdano's interview, I set out to research and found out that Barca isn't any better than Real Madrid when it comes to splashing the cash, yet people continue to turn a blind-eye on their spending.

Many would ask, how is that so?

Firstly, I would like to point at the transfer activities of both the clubs in the 2008-09 season:

Real Madrid purchased Rafael Van der Vaart and Ezequiel Garay in the summer and Lassana Diarra and Klaas Jan Huntelaar in the winter which took their spending to €68 million but the sales of Robinho, Soldado, and Julio Baptista got them €54.7 million. Their net expenditure, therefore, was €13.3 million.

Barcelona, on the other hand, spent €102 million in 2008-09 for Keita, Pique, Hleb, Caceres, Dani Alves, and Henrique, re-couping just €49.5 million of that through sales, leading to a net expenditure of €51.5 million.

Now let’s look at the much talked about transfer window of 2009-10 season.

Real Madrid purchased Kaka, Cristiano Ronaldo, Xabi Alonso, Raul Albiol, Karim Benzema, Alvaro Arbeloa, and Esteban Granero for a whopping total of €249 million.

The sales of Arjen Robben and Wesley Sneijder, brought Florentino Perez’s sales figures to the magical number of €90.5 million (which he aimed for before starting the project). The net expenditure for this season, then, is €158.5 million.

FC Barcelona quite surprisingly spent over €100 million for the second year running, €129.5 million to be exact for Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Dmytro Chyhrynskiy, Keirsson, and Maxwell. Through Samuel Eto’o’s sale, they recovered only €30 million, leading to a net expenditure of €99.5 million.

So in the two seasons combined Real Madrid's net expenditure is €171.8 million and FC Barcelona's net expenditure is €151 million, just a €20.8 million difference between the two.

If the difference had been larger, Barcelona had every right criticise Madrid’s transfer policy, but the fact is they are very similar.

So much for Laporta's, "We create players not buy them, unlike Real Madrid" statement.

That statement also implies Real Madrid do not have enough academy players in their team which, shockingly, is again not true.

Real Madrid now have six academy players in their squad, namely Iker Casillas, Antonio Adan, Alvaro Arbeloa, Esteban Granero, Guti, and Raul.

Barcelona, on the other hand, also have just six—Victor Valdes, Gerard Pique, Xavi Hernandez, Iniesta, Lionel Messi, and Bojan.

I have counted out Puyol and Busqets because they joined at the age of 17. However, if you are willing to agree that Cesc Fabregas is an academy product of Arsenal (he joined at the age of 15) then you can count Puyol and Busquets as products of Barca's academy.

I am not that good at math so I used a calculator and found out that Real Madrid now have thas same number of playwers from their academy as Barcelona. So I guess you are wrong again Joan Laporta.

Real Madrid came into everyone's eyes because they spent truck-loads at once, their spending is indefensible but aren't FC Barcelona and Real Madrid at level planes?

So what should be said about FC Barcelona?

Why indeed, "The church appears to be above religion, they don't practice what they preach."

Més que, given that Farca has only spent $20M less than us over the past 2 years, I dont think your in a position to say much. Keep your silly comments to yourself unless you have all the facts. If you want the facts, I can post them again for you, just let me know. Hala Madrid.

Well, I wouldn't say it was "rebuilding" or "Chef Pellegrini" because that implies there was some development of existing talent (there wasn't). Instead, I would say there was a purchase of outside talent. No denying there is improvement from the squad you fielded last year, but I wouldn't call your club "great" until you have won something this year.

the GREAT REAL MADRID can only get STRONGER from here(like we HAVE been doing ever since Chef Pellegrini took charge)>Barca fans have had their golden period and now the GREAT REAL MADRID are TAKING BACK what it loaned out whilst rebuilding%%%

Katele, my fellow culés and I are not out of words nor support for our Barca. While I commend RM for a recent stretch of good form, their first two-point lead of the season is hardly a coronation of the league title. As you point out, there is still a lot to be played...

They've talked a lot and all the sudden it seems they're running outta the words. They're eating their own words cuz a few days ago they were all over Real Madrid and they thought RM would lose against Sevilla. It's still "work in progress" but the team is improving game after game. At the start of the season RM couldn't play good football, let alone dominating the game from start to finish, but now they sure as hell are capable of doing that. It's still a long way to go, though. Nobody has the right to win the league until it's won. Barca will have to go to Sevilla and Bernabeu... so anything can happen.
Manolo Jimenez: "This is the best Real Madrid I've ever seen."